Preventing the power supply (PSU) from blowing the motherboard or vice versa

07
2014-07
  • mobile computing

    Problems with power supply and motherboard compatibility appear to be common.

    Are there any computer components that could be placed somewhere between the PSU and wall outlet to minimize the chance that the power supply will blow the motherboard and vice versa? For example, would a surge protector, redundant power supply, or uninterrupted power supply be of any use here?

    Suppose you disconnect your machine's motherboard from its current PSU and then connect it to a new PSU that supplies a lot more power. What can you do to make sure that your motherboard doesn't get damaged by the new PSU or fail to power on?

  • Answers
  • gronostaj

    Suppose you disconnect your machine's motherboard from its current PSU and then connect it to a new PSU that supplies a lot more power.

    That's not how electricity works. The nominal power is the maximum amount of power PSU is able to deliver. It's not the PSU that delivers constant amount of power, it's other components that draw power from it.

    At any time your hardware will receive as much power as much is required, unless it's more than PSU's nominal power, in which case something will fail. Connecting your MoBo to a new PSU with higher nominal power won't cause computer to draw more power.

    The best way of preventing PSU-related failures is not being cheap and buying a sound PSU.

    • High quality PSUs have better failure protection mechanisms.
    • They provide more stable voltage, thus making your MoBo last longer. (Damaged capacitors are probably the most common cause of MoBo failures and they are caused by unstable voltages on PSU)
    • They are quieter.
  • CharlieRB

    Having power protection between the outlet and the computer is ALWAYS a good idea. This protects from power spikes, like surges or lightening strikes.

    As far as the PSU blowing the motherboard; a PSU only provides the power drawn from it by the components. It does not push a constant rate of power to all components connected. So the chances of a PSU blowing the motherboard are unlikely.

    It would be interesting to see the facts behind your statement "Problems with power supply and motherboard compatibility appear to be common.". In my experience, PSU compatibility tends to be the purchaser error, not faulty equipment.

  • drk.com.ar

    The nominal rating of a power supply is just an indication of how much power your motherboard can draw from it. If your motherboard works fine with a 250W power supply, there is no reason for having trouble with a 1000W power supply, as long as they were built for the same form factor (AT, ATX, etc). The form factor specification determines which voltages the power supply should provide for every connector pin. And, of course, these voltages must be independent from the power supply power rating.

    Said that, a flawed power supply could eventually put a higher voltage over one or more output pins. If that voltage difference (between the specification and the voltage that power supply is providing) is too high, the motherboard is going to be damaged. Some motherboards have an anti-surge protection built-in. Which will prevent this kind of damage.

  • Michael Kjörling

    Are there any computer components that could be placed somewhere between the PSU and wall outlet to minimize the chance that the power supply will blow the motherboard and vice versa? For example, would a surge protector, redundant power supply, or uninterrupted power supply be of any use here?

    No. Based on the emphasized part.

    Don't get me wrong, there are many very good reasons for putting a surge protector or voltage-stabilized uninterruptable power supply (UPS) in the computer's AC mains feed line, and in fact I'm pretty sure I lost my previous computer to unfiltered AC. But something like that will not prevent computer-internal damage caused by a faulty or malfunctioning (computer-internal) PSU, because the surge protector cannot know whether the current draw is a result of normal but higher-powered use, or if it is the result of a malfunction. I believe most surge protectors are overvoltage protectors, not current surge protectors (also known under the term "fuses"). It is also important to put everything that is hooked up to the computer on equally good protection; while not very likely, if a voltage spike can jump through your printer to the computer, the fact that the computer is on a filtered power supply won't help much. Many years ago now, I had a CRT monitor kill a motherboard through the VGA cable through the graphics card.

    Suppose you disconnect your machine's motherboard from its current PSU and then connect it to a new PSU that supplies a lot more power. What can you do to make sure that your motherboard doesn't get damaged by the new PSU or fail to power on?

    You go the extra mile, pay a bit of a premium and buy a high-quality PSU.

    An electrical component -- any electrical component -- will only draw as much power as it needs from its power source. The power source must be able to supply the amount of power drawn by the component at a voltage that the component can work with. Consider the lightbulb you hook to the same wall outlet that can just as easily power your hairdryer or vacuum cleaner, both of which can draw on the order of 100 times more power than a lightbulb. (Kilowatt range rather than tens of watts.)

    The power supply rating tells you (one part of) how much power the power supply is capable of supplying. (Another very important aspect especially in high-powered setups is the power supply per-rail capacity. A third aspect is the amount of power it can supply at various voltages. The two latter are very often closely related but they are not necessarily the same.)

    A high-quality power supply will contain circuitry in addition to what is absolutely necessary to make it supply power at the necessary voltages. Particularly, as has been pointed out elsewhere in response to this question, it will have protective circuitry to prevent for example an overvoltage condition causing damage. This of course is not a guarantee, but it significantly betters the odds that a PSU malfunction or even a short circuit will not lead to further hardware damage.

  • Big Chris

    Your PSU should be able to provide enough power to cope with the cumulative demand of all the components in your computer. If all the devices are working correctly and drawing the required power they need, providing your PSU is rated to the correct power and is working correctly, your devices should not be damaged majorly in the event of a power spike. This is what fuses and RCDs are for. You should, however, invest in a surge protector at least.

    For power losses you could invest in a UPS as this will keep your devices on and gracefully shutdown the system in the event of a power cut. OR, keep the device on with enough power until power is resumed.

  • keshlam

    Ignoring the misunderstandings about power supply ratings for a moment...

    Surge protectors and/or UPS's will help to isolate the PC from surges on the power line which might get coupled into the machine and cause trouble. (Most UPS units these days also provide surge protection.)

    The odds of a power supply failing in such a way as to also take out the motherboard, WITHOUT a powerline surge, are actually pretty low. Not impossible, but I don't think the risk is anywhere near high enough to justify trying to add protection states between the PSU and the rest of the system. (Two regulators in series is not impossible, but increases cost and complexity and would require some power to operate, and if a surge manages to get to the machine it can blow two stages as easily as one.) Given that life-critical and business-critical equipment hasn't felt the need to do this, I don't think you can justify it.


  • Related Question

    boot - Power cycles on/off 3 times before booting properly from cold start, no other issues (New System)
  • Questioner

    Relevant Specs: Sapphire 5850, core i7 920, Seasonic x750 power supply, ECS X58B-A2 mobo.

    From a cold boot, meaning all power totally disconnected at the wall, the system will power on for less than a second and then power off completely. After two seconds of being powered off this will repeat and on the third "attempt" the computer will boot.

    To be very specific here is what happens:

    1. The power is turned on at the wall and on the psu, the orange stdby LED on the mobo is illuminated but the system is 'off'.
    2. I hit the power button on the case or on the mobo itself
    3. I hear the relay (?) in the psu closing
    4. The case light comes on and the mobo power light comes on.
    5. The fans start rotating.
    6. Immediately after this the I hear some relay click - the power lights extinguish, the fans stop, the stdby light remains on.
    7. Less than 2 seconds pass and the cycle repeats without any intervention from me.
    8. On the third attempt it boots normally and the machine runs perfectly.

    If I do a soft reboot or a full shutdown the computer starts normally the next time. It's only if I pull the power cord or flick the switch off on the PSU that I get the cycling again. Basically any time the stdby light on the mobo goes out.

    I have removed the graphics card and I get the same problem.

    I have removed the PSU, hotwired it to the ON position and verified voltages on all lines. The relay does not cycle when I do this.

    If I connect only the 24 pin ATX connector to the mobo and not the 8 pin ATX12V / CPU connector then I will not get the cycling, the fans run, the power light stays on, but obviously the system can't boot.

    Disconnecting all fans has no effect on the problem.

    My feeling it that it's something to do with the motherboard like a capacitor that's taking a long time to charge because it's leaking or something along those lines. But I can't imagine what could be 'wrong' with it and only manifest itself as a problem under these very specific circumstances.


    Thanks for the response Ralford. The board actually has a postcode LED display built in which is very nice and useful. Unfortunately if your problem is that the power keeps failing the display will go dark before you have a chance to read the last code! :-) The board runs rapidly through the initial codes so it's hard to see what's going on. Maybe I can try to see how far it gets. The power shuts off in less than a second from power on and it goes through a few codes in that period so it will be tricky. FYI the board uses an AMI BIOS and the manual has all the codes in it.

    I tried changing the QPI frequency to 4.3gt/s and that didn’t help so I’m not sure the explanation from ECS is accurate..

    I read in a few places that folks running DDR3 1600 memory and Gigabyte x58 boards were getting a ‘double boot’. That was fixed with a BIOS update or using different RAM timings. I’m using 6GB OCZ 1600.

    Example: http://www.tomshardware.com/forum/256210-30-ex58-skill-ddr3-1600-issue

    Now I’m leaning towards it being a memory timing problem. Tonight I’ll take out the RAM and see if it still powers off on startup. If that works I’ll play with the timings and see how far I get.

    To be honest it’s not that big of a problem since one usually leaves the AC power connected even when the machine is off so I only get the re-starts occasionally. I just want to verify it’s not something serious before I lose my chance to RMA. I’d also like to run less risk of frying something inside on a cold boot.


    When I take the RAM out it powers up and stays on. Obviously the board can't POST but this is strongly suggestive of memory timing problem. I copied down the RAM timings that CPU-Z shows when the machine boots up and set them in the BIOS hoping that the everyone would be happy first time around from a cold boot. No luck. There are a lot of other options in the BIOS that CPU-Z does not show so I'm getting Everest and I'm going to work through them. It would be so much simpler if the BIOS would just show the 'in-use value' beside the selection since many of them are set to 'Auto'.


    Response from ECS below. When I got this email I called them because it wasn't very clear what they were suggesting I do to fix it. I got someone on the phone who was obviously reading from a script. He tried to tell me it's normal. Clearly it's not. Eventually he agreed. When I get home I'll try resetting the BIOS to 'defaults' and failing that I'll try setting the QPI speed manually to 4.8gt/s (assuming the BIOS allows me to).

    ================= ECS RESPONSE ===================

    Dear Valued Customer.

    Based on the feature of X58 chipset, if the frequencies of IOH and processor are different, the BIOS will revise the QPI speed through GPOs and issue a Pwrgood reset.

    The mismatch can occur under two conditions: 1. Lost of AC power 2. User swapped the processors with different speed parts

    Thank you J.V. ECS Technical Support

    Anyone care to chime in with another suggestion ?


  • Related Answers
  • ralford

    If ECS suspects that the BIOS is initiating a system reset, then perhaps the system is partway through BIOS code execution. I would recommend inserting a POST code display board into the system to see the last code written to I/O port 80h by the system.

    Once you have this, contact ESC (or the BIOS vendor) and give them the last POST code you see on the display. If they have the source to the BIOS (they may not, unless you have a highly specialized embedded PC), they may be able to look up the code in the source and tell you the last thing to happen in the system before the reset condition occurs.

    If ECS doesn't have source code to the BIOS, see if you can find the POST code meaning at: http://www.bioscentral.com/.